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Havasu DougMale Offline
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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 10 2004,5:48 pm Post # 1 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

This sounds interesting.  Back in the day, a B-29 crashed into Lake Mead and the wreck will be explored tonight on the History Channel.  I believe it's at 8 PM Pacific time.






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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 10 2004,5:53 pm Post # 2 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Havasu Doug @ Feb. 10 2004,6:48 pm)
This sounds interesting.  Back in the day, a B-29 crashed into Lake Mead and the wreck will be explored tonight on the History Channel.  I believe it's at 8 PM Pacific time.

cool sure sounds like something I'd be interested in watching. I'll check it out. Thanks Doug... :good


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 10 2004,5:53 pm Post # 3 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

From the History Channel website:

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In 1948, a B-29 Superfortress took off from California on a research mission carrying a strange piece of scientific equipment--the Suntracker. But when the plane crashed into Lake Mead, Nevada, the Suntracker was lost. And all records saying what it was or what the plane was studying were also lost. Now, archaeologists from the National Park Services' Submerged Resources Center explore the wrecked bomber, submerged under 200 feet of water, and learn that it was at the forefront of Cold War science.






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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 10 2004,7:51 pm Post # 4 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I saw that about a month ago, cool show.


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 10 2004,9:05 pm Post # 5 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

That was a cool show. :cool  I wonder where on the lake that was?  I think it's interesting to know what's beneath me while on the lakes and river.  In fact, a dive shop in Havasu has a website that tells about various dive sites on that lake.  There's a link on my main website under the links section.  My sister freaks out whenever I make mention of it though while she's on my boat.  I have to tell her that I'll avoid cruising over the underwater town while were on Havasu. :rotflmao






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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 10 2004,9:13 pm Post # 6 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Here's the link:

Lake Havasu Dive Site Locations

:good






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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 10 2004,9:21 pm Post # 7 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

From the National Park Service website:

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Lake Mead NRA News Release
August 20, 2003
For Immediate Release
Roxanne Dey, (702) 293-8947
roxanne_dey@nps.gov
Release #: 69-03

U.S. District Court Rules Against Historic Aircraft Recovery Corporation
National Park Service Will Continue to Protect and Study the B-29 Superfortress Bomber

On August 18, 2003, U.S. District Court Judge Kent J. Dawson ruled the Historic Aircraft Recovery Corporation failed to meet its burden of proof in their motion for ownership the B-29 aircraft that crashed into the Overton Arm of Lake Mead in 1948. Additionally, the court ruled against a temporary restraining order preventing the National Park Service (NPS) from studying or doing any work on the B-29 and/or the crash site.

The decision clearly states the B-29 was never abandoned by the federal government. The NPS participated in the rescue of the B-29 crew, and has, over the years, claimed ownership of the wreck for the federal government. Additionally, the actions of the National Park Service have not shown any intention to relinquish legal rights to the B-29. The court cited the NPS has demonstrated its interest in the B-29 as an important historical artifact by issuing diving restrictions to protect the aircraft and the site and participating in the determination of eligibility of the aircraft and site for the National Register of Historic Places. The NPS has defended its interest on behalf of the American people, in this, and a previous lawsuit.

The court also stated the government has generally-known the location of the crash site since 1948. Additionally, the court agreed with the government’s argument that the wreck is located on a plateau about 160 feet above the bed of the Virgin River on federally-owned land. This is an important point because it maintains the ownership of the aircraft by the federal government for the American people. The court did not agree with the plaintiff that the crash is in the location of the original Virgin River channel. This would have changed the jurisdiction of the site to the state of Nevada.

On August 6, 2002, the National Park Service was informed that a group of local divers had located an Army Air Force B-29 bomber, which had crashed in the Overton Arm of Lake Mead more than 55 years ago. All crew members survived the crash, and their stories in conjunction with Army Air Force crash reports were instrumental in locating the aircraft. The aircraft was located at a depth that requires technical skill and specialized equipment to access.

The B-29 Superfortress was one of the first high-altitude heavy bombers and was reported to have carried equipment specifically designed for what was once a top-secret mission of atmospheric research. Because there are few examples of the B-29 left in existence this aircraft is a very significant cultural resource.
The National Park Service has worked with its Submerged Resource Center to do a full condition assessment and site documentation. Established in 1980, the Center formed the first underwater archaeology team in the federal government. They have conducted surveys in over 120 units throughout the National Park System using minimum impact techniques to collect data without harming the underwater resources. The team was at Lake Mead in June 2003 to conduct additional inventory work and analysis, including corrosion studies, on the B-29 bomber and site. The NPS Submerged Resources Team has been recently featured on the Discovery and History channels for their work on the USS Arizona.

Superintendent William K. Dickinson said, “The NPS is planning to meet with members of the local dive community in the very near future to work collaboratively on a management plan that will allow the public to experience the site while protecting it for future generations as part of a comprehensive site stewardship plan.”

Scientific studies and analysis at the site will be an on-going process. The B-29 and the site upon which it rests are managed by the National Park Service under the National Historic Preservation Act. Federal law prohibits any disturbance of this protected resource.

In January 2003, Lake Mead National Recreation Area Superintendent William K. Dickinson announced that the requirement to obtain a scuba diving permit for a portion of the Lower Overton Arm of Lake Mead has been extended through January 21, 2004. The restriction is necessary to protect the B-29, a sensitive archaeological resource. Permits for scuba diving will be considered on a case by case basis and can be requested through the Chief Ranger’s Office at 702.293.8908.

Lake Mead National Recreation Area is a unit of the National Park Service.

-NPS-






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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,7:24 am Post # 8 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Its mine, no its mine :fight Cool that their trying to preserve it but keep the courts out of it. :guns


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,7:39 am Post # 9 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

This argument really started back in Illinois.  Seems that navy dunked quite a few planes in the Great Lakes back in WWII during training (Wildcats, TBM's, and a few others).  Due to the cold temperatures and fresh water most of these airplanes are pefectly preserved.

And, because of the high prices these airplanes would bring on the open market, salvagers have been after them for years.  

The courts finally ruled that anything the gov't owned is still gov't property, even at the bottom of a lake.  

It would be cool to see another B29 flying (there is only one to my knowlege, "Fifi" , that's owned by the Confederate Air Force), but I say leave it there.


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,8:21 am Post # 10 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Did anyone watch the program where people were trying the salvage the P-38’s that had crashed somewhere in the artic? They were something like 100 feet under the ice. They got down to them several times but I don’t know if they ever got them up. The amount of money those guys spent trying to salvage them was unreal!


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,8:25 am Post # 11 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

The Lost Squadron.  Discovery channel had a program on those guys.  2 B-17's and 4 P-38's if I remember.  Once they got down there (after years of trying and developing ways to do it) below the ice, most of the airplanes were crushed due to the movement and pressure of the ice.

They did however raise 1 P-38 and restored it.  It's making the airshow circuit now.

The whole idea was to raise all the airplanes to pay for the expidition, I think they ended up loosing millions of other people's money.


Edited by Sleek-Jet on Feb. 11 2004,8:26 am


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,8:27 am Post # 12 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

At least they got one P-38 up an flying again out of it!


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,8:32 am Post # 13 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Here is a few links for ya Miller.

Epps aviation

The Lost Squadron

The P-38's name is Glacier Girl, just FYI.


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,8:34 am Post # 14 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (miller19j @ Feb. 11 2004,9:27 am)
At least they got one P-38 up an flying again out of it!

I've been told that there is at least one more salvagable P-38 below the ice... you ready to start wrighting checks??   :D


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,8:37 am Post # 15 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Sleek-Jet @ Feb. 11 2004,8:34 am)
Quote (miller19j @ Feb. 11 2004,9:27 am)
At least they got one P-38 up an flying again out of it!

I've been told that there is at least one more salvagable P-38 below the ice... you ready to start wrighting checks??   :D

I think that it would be more cost effective to make a plastic one from the model shop.  :D


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,9:09 am Post # 16 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

:plane Anybody else have sunken item stories in other lakes besides Mead and Havasu? I really never knew so much stuff was there.


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,9:32 am Post # 17 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Big H @ Feb. 11 2004,9:09 am)
:plane Anybody else have sunken item stories in other lakes besides Mead and Havasu? I really never knew so much stuff was there.

A friend of mine had a place up in Arrowhead. He told me that there was a train, tracks, and all kinds of equipment at the bottom that they used in during construction of the Dam. According to him it was going to be to costly to move the stuff so they just left it.

I have no idea if it is actually true or not?


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,2:05 pm Post # 18 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (miller19j @ Feb. 11 2004,9:32 am)
Quote (Big H @ Feb. 11 2004,9:09 am)
:plane Anybody else have sunken item stories in other lakes besides Mead and Havasu? I really never knew so much stuff was there.

A friend of mine had a place up in Arrowhead. He told me that there was a train, tracks, and all kinds of equipment at the bottom that they used in during construction of the Dam. According to him it was going to be to costly to move the stuff so they just left it.

I have no idea if it is actually true or not?

I believe it.  I know for a fact that there is a tunnel that goes under Lake Arrowhead.  One of Huell Howser's TV programs explored it. :D

I, also, remember a cable program about a B-29 stranded in the arctic.  It made an emergency landing many decades ago and was left there. Some guys took the necessary parts up there to fix it and planned to fly it out.  Something happened though and the plane burned up.  They had no way to put out the fire, so they just sat on some chairs and watched it burn.






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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,2:07 pm Post # 19 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Big H @ Feb. 11 2004,9:09 am)
:plane Anybody else have sunken item stories in other lakes besides Mead and Havasu? I really never knew so much stuff was there.

BTW, welcome to the HD Forums Big H! :good  Laguna Niguel is pretty close to alot of us on this board.  You'll have to get together with us locally sometime soon. :D






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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,3:10 pm Post # 20 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Havasu Doug @ Feb. 11 2004,3:05 pm)
Quote (miller19j @ Feb. 11 2004,9:32 am)
Quote (Big H @ Feb. 11 2004,9:09 am)
:plane Anybody else have sunken item stories in other lakes besides Mead and Havasu? I really never knew so much stuff was there.

A friend of mine had a place up in Arrowhead. He told me that there was a train, tracks, and all kinds of equipment at the bottom that they used in during construction of the Dam. According to him it was going to be to costly to move the stuff so they just left it.

I have no idea if it is actually true or not?

I believe it.  I know for a fact that there is a tunnel that goes under Lake Arrowhead.  One of Huell Howser's TV programs explored it. :D

I, also, remember a cable program about a B-29 stranded in the arctic.  It made an emergency landing many decades ago and was left there. Some guys took the necessary parts up there to fix it and planned to fly it out.  Something happened though and the plane burned up.  They had no way to put out the fire, so they just sat on some chairs and watched it burn.

Darryle Greenamyer.    A B-29 got lost and landed in Greenland after running out of fuel shortly after WWII.  It sat stranded on the ice shelf for years.  

Darryl decided to go rescue it and fly it out.  They got all the engines replaced and running.  Even got to the point of taxi tests.

Then it happened.  B-29 used what is called an APU, an air cooled motor and generator basically, to provide power while the engines are shut down.  Anyway, a fuel line broke and showered the little aircooled motor with fuel... fooommm!!!  

The poor airplane burned to the ground while everyone watched.


Edited by Sleek-Jet on Feb. 11 2004,3:11 pm


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,4:49 pm Post # 21 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I remember that, poor bastards.

And Sleek your starting to scare me :eek  :laugh Turn the TV off and get some sleep :D  I think there is a B-29 at the Pima Air Museum here in town.


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,5:26 pm Post # 22 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (AZKC @ Feb. 11 2004,5:49 pm)
I remember that, poor bastards.

And Sleek your starting to scare me :eek  :laugh Turn the TV off and get some sleep :D  I think there is a B-29 at the Pima Air Museum here in town.

TV, hell I haven't had that at the house for a couple years.  No, I read alot, and aircraft archeology is kind of a hobby.  

I think that is B-50 (same airframe as B-29, bigger engines) at Pima, but I'm not sure.  The Airforce museum in Ohio has one, and there is another in Pueblo CO at the NTSB testing museum, but none of them are flyable...

... man, I am an airplane geek.   :D


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 11 2004,6:23 pm Post # 23 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

great story, I taped it and watched it today. Very cool!


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 12 2004,8:43 am Post # 24 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Hey Havasu Doug, thanks for the welcome. I noticed most people are pretty close together here. I am planning on hooking up with everybody (that comes) at RWYB next month. My buddy and I are working through the cold nights right now to do some refinish work on his boat and a lot more than that to my new project. First time on a posting board so if my posting style seems weird, just give me some hints. Looking forward to meeting everyone.  :beer


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Post Icon Posted: Feb. 12 2004,9:07 am Post # 25 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Big H @ Feb. 12 2004,8:43 am)
Hey Havasu Doug, thanks for the welcome. I noticed most people are pretty close together here. I am planning on hooking up with everybody (that comes) at RWYB next month. My buddy and I are working through the cold nights right now to do some refinish work on his boat and a lot more than that to my new project. First time on a posting board so if my posting style seems weird, just give me some hints. Looking forward to meeting everyone.  :beer

Cool. :cool  A bunch of us will be at RWYB III, although I'm not on the arrival list yet.  It's no big deal though.  They just have a list going on another board of who's going to show up.

We have alot of local get togethers so you might even meet us before RWYB III. :D






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