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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 16 2004,8:17 am Post # 1 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

The Army is investigating up to 19 reservist members of a platoon that is part of the 343rd Quartermaster Company, based in Rock Hill, S.C. The unit delivers food, water and fuel on trucks in combat zones.

Convoys in Iraq are frequently subject to ambushes and roadside bombings.

Some of the troops’ safety concerns were being addressed, military officials said. But a coalition spokesman in Baghdad said “a small number of the soldiers involved chose to express their concerns in an inappropriate manner, causing a temporary breakdown in discipline.”

The coalition said in a statement Saturday that the troops are “not being guarded or detained. They are being interviewed. They’re taking statements.”

'I mean, raise pure hell'
But the relatives said they were told the soldiers had been confined.

Teresa Hill of Dothan, Ala., who said her daughter, Amber McClenny, was among in the platoon, received a phone message from her early Thursday morning saying they had been detained by U.S. military authorities.

“This is a real, real, big emergency,” McClenny said in her message. “I need you to contact someone. I mean, raise pure hell.”

McClenny said in her message that her platoon had refused to go on a fuel-hauling convoy to Taji, north of Baghdad. “We had broken down trucks, non-armored vehicles and, um, we were carrying contaminated fuel. They are holding us against our will. We are now prisoners,” she said.

Hill said she was later contacted by Spc. Tammy Reese in Iraq, who was calling families of the soldiers.

“She told me (Amber) was being held in a tent with armed guards,” said Hill, who spoke with her daughter Friday afternoon after her release. Her daughter said they are facing punishment ranging from a reprimand to a charge of mutiny.

Dangerous route
The incident was first reported Friday by The Clarion-Ledger newspaper in Jackson, Miss. Family members told the newspaper that several platoon members had been confined.

The supply route the soldiers were to have used, is among the most dangerous in Iraq. The military calls it “Main Supply Route Tampa.” Many soldiers have been wounded there by roadside bombs and rifle and rocket-propelled grenade fire.

A commanding general has ordered the unit to undergo a “safety-maintenance stand down,” during which it will conduct no further missions as the unit’s vehicles are inspected, the military said.

On Wednesday, 19 members of the platoon did not show up for a scheduled 7 a.m. meeting in Tallil, in southeastern Iraq, to prepare for the fuel convoy’s departure a few hours later, the military statement said.

“An initial report indicated that some of the 19 soldiers (not all) refused to participate in the convoy as directed,” the statement said.

The mission was ultimately carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said.

Reservist says equipment of poor quality
Staff Sgt. Christopher Stokes, a 37-year-old chemical engineer from Charlotte, N.C., went to Iraq with the 343rd but had to come home because of an injury. He said reservists were given inferior equipment and tensions in the company had been building since they were deployed in February.

“It wasn’t really safe,” he said. “The vehicles are not all that up to par anyway. The armor that they have is homemade. It’s not really armor. It’s like little steel rails.”

A whole unit refusing to go on a mission in a war zone would be a significant breach of military discipline. The military statement said the incident “isolated” and called the 343rd an experienced unit that performed honorable service in nine months in Iraq.

U.S. military officials said the commanding general of the 13th Corps Support Command., Brig. Gen. James E. Chambers, had appointed his deputy, Col. Darrell Roll, to investigate. An investigative team under Roll is in Tallil, questioning soldiers about the incident, the military said.

“Preliminary findings indicate that there were several contributing factors that led to the late convoy incident and alleged refusal to participate by some soldiers,” the military said. “It would be inappropriate to discuss those factors while the investigation continues.”

Separately, the commander of the 300th Area Support Group, listed on a military Web site as Col. Pamela Adams, has ordered a criminal inquiry to determine if any soldiers committed crimes under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and, if so, whether disciplinary measures are warranted.

The platoon has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Mississippi and South Carolina, said Hill.


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 16 2004,8:28 am Post # 2 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Screw those Pu$$y$!!!!!!!!  How come they couldn't go out and complete the mission, yet other members of their platoon did complete it?  19 out of 120 should be going to the Brig!  The other ones that DID go out and complete the mission (quite successfully I might add) are from the same platoon, but I guess they just had a little more huevos than these 19. :rolleyes   There is no room in this Country's Military for Cowards.  And refusing a direct order is NOT the way to get things done.  Smart money would have been to go over and talk to someone and get it resolved, rather than refusing a direct order.  
Personally, If I was in that situation I would have completed the mission, no questions asked.  And if any enemy got in my way, I would have kicked their  :ass  'es


Edited by BigBoyToys on Oct. 16 2004,8:29 am




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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 16 2004,8:36 am Post # 3 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

And you know, I am not the least bit surprised that it's a "Democrap" that starts this thread, calling it "Troops make a stand"

They made a stand alright...They should be thrown in the brig for insubordination and after a year or two, kicked out of the Service with a dishonorable discharge!

Those are NOT the type of troops that we need defending our country.  We need "Can Do" type people, and most of the troops are.  It just seems so ironic that this story is all over the news today, and definitely reported with a Liberal bias.  Typical Democrap would rather run and hide and protest, rather than fight and win.  That's exactly how I see it, and that's exactly how Kerry and the liberal media is :rainbow  :rainbow  :rainbow .

Thanks go out to the other 101 troops of the 343rd :good  :good

And, I will be seeing my nephews a little later today (Both have been in Iraq) and will ask them what they think about this subject.  And I bet they will say the same exact thing!


Edited by BigBoyToys on Oct. 16 2004,8:42 am




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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 16 2004,9:18 am Post # 4 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

It would be interesting to know if the troops that completed the mission used the same equipment assigned to the troops that refused to go.


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 17 2004,9:11 am Post # 5 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Now THIS GUY in the story below, is a TRUE AMERICAN SOLDIER :good .  

U.S. National - AP


Paratrooper Who Lost Leg in War Re-Enlists

Sat Oct 16, 8:10 PM ET   U.S. National - AP


By ESTES THOMPSON, Associated Press Writer

FORT BRAGG, N.C. - George Perez lost his leg to a roadside bomb in Iraq (news - web sites) more than a year ago, but despite the phantom pains that haunt him, he says he is determined to prove to the Army that he is no less of a man — and no less of a soldier.

 

"I'm not ready to get out yet," he says. "I'm not going to let this little injury stop me from what I want to do."


Perez, 21, still feels the sweat between his toes when he exercises. He's still plagued with nagging cramps in his calf muscle. And sometimes, when he gets out of bed at night without thinking, he topples over.


He is one of at least four amputees from the 82nd Airborne Division to re-enlist. With a new carbon-fiber prosthetic leg, Perez intends to show a medical board he can run an eight-minute mile, jump out of airplanes and pass all the other paratrooper tests that will allow him to go with his regiment to Afghanistan (news - web sites) next year.


On Sept. 14, 2003, Perez, of Carteret, N.J., and seven other members of his squad were rumbling down a road outside Fallujah when a bomb blast rocked their Humvee. Perez recalls flying through the air and hitting the ground hard.


The blast killed one of Perez's comrades. Perez felt surprisingly little pain, but when he tried to get up, he couldn't. He saw that his left foot was folded backward onto his knee. His size 12 1/2 combat boot stood in the dusty road a few feet away, still laced.


A photograph of Perez's lonely boot transmitted around the world and spread across two pages of Time magazine became a stark reminder that the war in Iraq was far from over.


Doctors initially tried to save part of Perez's foot. But an infection crept up his leg, and Perez agreed to allow the amputation below the knee joint.


"I was going to stay in no matter what," he recalls telling the surgeons. "Do whatever would get me back fastest."


Perez was left with a rounded stump that fits into the suction cup of the black carbon-fiber prosthetic leg.


When he arrived at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., for his rehabilitation, Perez asked a pair of generals who visited his bedside if it was possible for him to stay in the Army.


"They told me, 'It's all up to you, how much you want it,'" he says. "If I could do everything like a regular soldier, I could stay in."


He wasted little time getting started. At one point, a visitor found him doing push-ups in bed. He trained himself to walk normally with his new leg, and then run with it.


Perez has to rise at least an hour earlier than his fellow soldiers to allow swelling from the previous day's training to subside enough for his stump to fit into the prosthetic.


But it is a comfort for Perez to know he's not alone.


At least three other paratroopers in the 82nd have lost limbs in combat during the past two years and re-enlisted. One of them, Staff Sgt. Daniel Metzdorf, lost his right leg above the knee in a Jan. 27 blast. He appealed three times before the fitness board allowed him to stay on.


"I think it's a testimony to today's professional Army," says division commander Maj. Gen. Bill Caldwell. "I also think, deep down, it is a love for their other paratroopers."

 



In July, amputee program manager Chuck Scoville of Walter Reed told a congressional committee that amputations accounted for 2.4 percent of all wounded in action in the Iraq war — twice the rate in World Wars I and II.

Perez is one of about 160 service members who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan who have passed through Walter Reed's amputee patient program. The military says it does not track the number who choose to stay in the service.

"It isn't something that historically we've had to deal with a whole lot," says Lt. Col. Frank Christopher, the surgeon for the 82nd Airborne.

Today, Perez looks every bit the part of paratrooper — tall, in ripped-ab shape and serious-looking. His uniform is sharply creased, his maroon beret sits at an exact angle above one eye and the black leather boot on his good leg gleams with a mirror shine. The only thing that sets him apart at a glance is the white running shoe on his prosthetic leg.

Perez has to go before another medical fitness board to determine whether he will be allowed to jump again. He also must pass the fitness test for his age — run two miles in just under 16 minutes and do at least 42 push-ups and 53 sit-ups in two-minute stretches.

For now, he must content himself with a job maintaining M-16s and M-4s, machine guns and grenade launchers in his company's armory. But his dream is to attend the grueling Ranger school at Fort Benning, Ga., a serious challenge to even the most able-bodied soldier.

"I got a lot of things to do," he said. "I want to do as much as I can, as much as they'll let me."




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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 17 2004,9:26 am Post # 6 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (BigBoyToys @ Oct. 17 2004,9:11 am)
Now THIS GUY in the story below, is a TRUE AMERICAN SOLDIER :good .  

U.S. National - AP


Paratrooper Who Lost Leg in War Re-Enlists

Sat Oct 16, 8:10 PM ET   U.S. National - AP


By ESTES THOMPSON, Associated Press Writer

FORT BRAGG, N.C. - George Perez lost his leg to a roadside bomb in Iraq (news - web sites) more than a year ago, but despite the phantom pains that haunt him, he says he is determined to prove to the Army that he is no less of a man — and no less of a soldier.

 

"I'm not ready to get out yet," he says. "I'm not going to let this little injury stop me from what I want to do."


Perez, 21, still feels the sweat between his toes when he exercises. He's still plagued with nagging cramps in his calf muscle. And sometimes, when he gets out of bed at night without thinking, he topples over.


He is one of at least four amputees from the 82nd Airborne Division to re-enlist. With a new carbon-fiber prosthetic leg, Perez intends to show a medical board he can run an eight-minute mile, jump out of airplanes and pass all the other paratrooper tests that will allow him to go with his regiment to Afghanistan (news - web sites) next year.


On Sept. 14, 2003, Perez, of Carteret, N.J., and seven other members of his squad were rumbling down a road outside Fallujah when a bomb blast rocked their Humvee. Perez recalls flying through the air and hitting the ground hard.


The blast killed one of Perez's comrades. Perez felt surprisingly little pain, but when he tried to get up, he couldn't. He saw that his left foot was folded backward onto his knee. His size 12 1/2 combat boot stood in the dusty road a few feet away, still laced.


A photograph of Perez's lonely boot transmitted around the world and spread across two pages of Time magazine became a stark reminder that the war in Iraq was far from over.


Doctors initially tried to save part of Perez's foot. But an infection crept up his leg, and Perez agreed to allow the amputation below the knee joint.


"I was going to stay in no matter what," he recalls telling the surgeons. "Do whatever would get me back fastest."


Perez was left with a rounded stump that fits into the suction cup of the black carbon-fiber prosthetic leg.


When he arrived at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., for his rehabilitation, Perez asked a pair of generals who visited his bedside if it was possible for him to stay in the Army.


"They told me, 'It's all up to you, how much you want it,'" he says. "If I could do everything like a regular soldier, I could stay in."


He wasted little time getting started. At one point, a visitor found him doing push-ups in bed. He trained himself to walk normally with his new leg, and then run with it.


Perez has to rise at least an hour earlier than his fellow soldiers to allow swelling from the previous day's training to subside enough for his stump to fit into the prosthetic.


But it is a comfort for Perez to know he's not alone.


At least three other paratroopers in the 82nd have lost limbs in combat during the past two years and re-enlisted. One of them, Staff Sgt. Daniel Metzdorf, lost his right leg above the knee in a Jan. 27 blast. He appealed three times before the fitness board allowed him to stay on.


"I think it's a testimony to today's professional Army," says division commander Maj. Gen. Bill Caldwell. "I also think, deep down, it is a love for their other paratroopers."

 



In July, amputee program manager Chuck Scoville of Walter Reed told a congressional committee that amputations accounted for 2.4 percent of all wounded in action in the Iraq war — twice the rate in World Wars I and II.

Perez is one of about 160 service members who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan who have passed through Walter Reed's amputee patient program. The military says it does not track the number who choose to stay in the service.

"It isn't something that historically we've had to deal with a whole lot," says Lt. Col. Frank Christopher, the surgeon for the 82nd Airborne.

Today, Perez looks every bit the part of paratrooper — tall, in ripped-ab shape and serious-looking. His uniform is sharply creased, his maroon beret sits at an exact angle above one eye and the black leather boot on his good leg gleams with a mirror shine. The only thing that sets him apart at a glance is the white running shoe on his prosthetic leg.

Perez has to go before another medical fitness board to determine whether he will be allowed to jump again. He also must pass the fitness test for his age — run two miles in just under 16 minutes and do at least 42 push-ups and 53 sit-ups in two-minute stretches.

For now, he must content himself with a job maintaining M-16s and M-4s, machine guns and grenade launchers in his company's armory. But his dream is to attend the grueling Ranger school at Fort Benning, Ga., a serious challenge to even the most able-bodied soldier.

"I got a lot of things to do," he said. "I want to do as much as I can, as much as they'll let me."

Now that's a real man... :good
If I could I would go to Iraq and help our Troops with no Questions asked. :guns


God Bless Our Troops past, present, and future......"Thank You"

To all Vietnam Vets. You are all Hero's to me.

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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 17 2004,10:04 am Post # 7 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I might add to this topic, that "willful Disobedience" during time of war, can be punishible by death.  During a non-war time, it can be up to 5 years prison and a dishonorable discharge.
Furthermore, they have determined that this was NOT an unlawful order, and was a legit order carried down from the CO. and the mission WAS indeed completed by other soldiers.

So, 2 things come to my mind here.
#1, if it was so dangerous, how come the other troops in the same 343rd QM were able to complete the mission?  Keep in mind, that the 343rd QM uses their own equipment, so that would mean that they had the same equipment as the ones that refused the order/mission.
#2, It was reported that the very same group that refused the order, had earlier in the day took the same equipment and supplies in a convoy earlier in the day, but the shipment was refused because the fuel was contaminated with water.  So they returned to base.  Upon returning to base, they were told, via orders from their CO, to take the supplies to a different location.  That was the mission/orders that they refused.  Sounds fishy to me..........

My thoughts:  I don't think that all 18 or 19 troops will be prosecuted, as they have a direct superior to whom they are accountable to.  However, I do believe that the top superiors in the group that told the others to "stand down" WILL indeed be prosecuted by the US Military, and I believe that they will be found GUILTY of "Willful Disobedience".  The penalty phase can be as serious as death, but I think that they will probably get a few years and a dishonorable Discharge.  There is no room for cowardice in this man's Army!!!!!


Edited by BigBoyToys on Oct. 17 2004,10:06 am




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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 17 2004,10:11 am Post # 8 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

As of now, the entire 343rd QM is on a "Stand Down" order pending investigation.  None of the troops are under arrest yet and are able to move freely within their operations base.  This should be interesting to see how it plays out, but you've read how I feel about the subject :eek




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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 20 2004,5:55 am Post # 9 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Problem with this story now is, it's all over the media and everyone knows how the media stretches out the facts.

In light of everything that has come to light in the past few days since this thread started, there are still lotsa questions that exist in my mind that need answered before any logical decision can be resolved on.  Although I didn't think about it originally, since I didn't pay attention to the whole story (Wrapped up with anger :eek  ) I kind of wonder why the CO had them taking contaminated fuel anywhere again, once it was determined that it was contaminated.  IF, the 18 or 19 soldiers would have said, "We are not gonna take this fuel anywhere will it will be used and potentially risk another US Troops life, by a helicopter crash" Then I would have said right on.  So that's the first thing.  But, they said that and should have stopped there, and not carried on with the other stuff about it being "too dangerous".  In as much as they started making other excuses after the fact of the contaminated fuel, I think there is much more to it and at some point, there was some type of cowardice involved.

In a nutshell, the 18 or 19 troops MAY have had legitimate concerns.  However, they went about handling the situation in the wrong way.  It may be just the top ranking few in the group, or it may end up being all of them to some extent.  The US Army WILL hand out some type of punishment when it is all said and done, because there has to be, and because we cannot set a bad precedence of not obeying orders in the US Military.  I think that it is probably the consensus among fighting troops in Iraq and even back home here, that they should be punished in order to maintain some type of command and control in the US Military.  However, I wouldn't be surprised a bit if a few "Upper" ranking troops (Officers) that were not part of the original 18 or 19,  get at least a reprimand out of this also.

Guess we'll just have to sit back and see how it plays itself out.  Unfortunately, I don't think that we'll ever know the "Complete Truth" because of the Media bias.  All we are hearing from is one side of the story (Ie; Parents of the 18-19 troops) and I really don't expect that will change.




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