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Havasu DougMale Offline
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 06 2008,9:57 pm Post # 1 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

If you're on the fence, please read this.

Firstly I'll state that I am not a registered Republican.  I am actually an Independent.

John McCain is a pretty liberal Republican and Barack Obama is a very liberal Democrat.  In other words, McCain is a lot more to the center of the spectrum between left and right than Obama.  Considering this, I think McCain can please more of the moderates, which is what most people are, than Obama can.

While Republicans favor corporate American more than the Dems, they can't be blamed for the current Wall Street crisis. The crisis was caused by the failure of the banks, which acquired bad home loans.  While George W is a Republican, the Republicans do not have control of the lawmaking and oversight - the dems do by ruling Congress.  Therefore, they are the ones that get to head the committees that were supposed to oversea Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Google House Dem Barney Frank for some interesting reading on this.

Rant over for now........  :)

P.S. I'm not trying to start drama.  I just wanted to offer my opinion for those that are on the fence and have not decided yet.  :peace






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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 07 2008,5:50 am Post # 2 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

My mind was made up when McCain got the the hott running mate.  I can handle four years of that.  :good




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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 07 2008,5:58 am Post # 3 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Already sent in our votes!. :good Debate should be interesting tonight!..
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 07 2008,8:51 am Post # 4 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (GoFastRacer @ Oct. 07 2008,5:58 am)
Already sent in our votes!. :good Debate should be interesting tonight!..

The only way to vote....absentee. We did the same.  :good


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 07 2008,9:54 am Post # 5 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

This is the best article I've seen that explains how the big banks got into this mess...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27005436/


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 07 2008,4:20 pm Post # 6 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Lots of reasons we are in this financial mess. Lots of fault to go around for not stopping/correcting it earlier.

One of the key reasons, to me, that started the ball rolling are the loans and mortgages given to people who would otherwise not qualify for them. DUH!
The masses of greed comes later as the money rolls in.

My understanding is O-bomb-man worked with acorn to force lenders to give loans they did not want to give in order to help less fortunate people get homes.
And in the last few months of Clintons term, he signed a bill with the same intentions, to allow un-qualified people to get home loans.

I don't think the O-bomb-man is dumb. So his intentions must have been too much greed or too much sympathy. Not good qualities for a leader.

And Clintons intention can be seen as setting up the incoming 'W' for failure.

In Biden's own words, people who do well for themselfs, need to be fair (patriotic) and distribute what they have worked for, to support those who don't. Not charitable, 'fair'.
So has the American dream been changed? Where you can do nothing and be taken care of ? ?

:banghead


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 07 2008,5:34 pm Post # 7 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Great post Doug!

Greed and corruption at all levels of government and business have contributed to our situation for many years. Lawyers and lobbyists take their cut and we end up holding the mess in our pocket books.

Oil companies posting record quarterly profits, that of some countries GNP...

Pharmaceutical companies posting record profits but yet you can buy the same drugs in Mexico or pennies on the dollar...

Uncontrolled litigation in the court system as an abuse of power....

Hanging on to your money is getting tougher every day....

Maybe the Lumanatti (SP?) really does exist.


;)  ;)


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 07 2008,5:39 pm Post # 8 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (HemiDude @ Oct. 07 2008,5:34 pm)
Pharmaceutical companies posting record profits but yet you can buy the same drugs in Mexico or pennies on the dollar...

I Know Working Around The Industry, It Cost The MFG. Co.s Big $$ To Get The Drugs "Approved" By The FDA.....


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 07 2008,8:37 pm Post # 9 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Whatever "puppet" we elect will be fine... :rolleyes   The whole process needs an overhaul... :beat

I'm totally in support of the "ear marks" for the Wooden Arrow Industry... :say?
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 08 2008,12:26 pm Post # 10 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (shueman @ Oct. 07 2008,8:37 pm)
Whatever "puppet" we elect will be fine...

But consider the puppet masters who've been at obamas strings in the past.


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 08 2008,12:33 pm Post # 11 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Hockey Family @ Oct. 08 2008,12:26 pm)
Quote (shueman @ Oct. 07 2008,8:37 pm)
Whatever "puppet" we elect will be fine...

But consider the puppet masters who've been at obamas strings in the past.

...and, considering obama seems to be easily influenced and wants to make everyone happy, also consider the radical world leaders he wants to meet with in his first year in office.

Too risky for me


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Can I sue Los Angeles if their boycott reduces my AZ property value?!?
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 08 2008,12:48 pm Post # 12 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Hockey Family @ Oct. 07 2008,4:20 pm)
Lots of reasons we are in this financial mess. Lots of fault to go around for not stopping/correcting it earlier.

One of the key reasons, to me, that started the ball rolling are the loans and mortgages given to people who would otherwise not qualify for them. DUH!
The masses of greed comes later as the money rolls in.

My understanding is O-bomb-man worked with acorn to force lenders to give loans they did not want to give in order to help less fortunate people get homes.
And in the last few months of Clintons term, he signed a bill with the same intentions, to allow un-qualified people to get home loans.

I don't think the O-bomb-man is dumb. So his intentions must have been too much greed or too much sympathy. Not good qualities for a leader.

And Clintons intention can be seen as setting up the incoming 'W' for failure.

In Biden's own words, people who do well for themselfs, need to be fair (patriotic) and distribute what they have worked for, to support those who don't. Not charitable, 'fair'.
So has the American dream been changed? Where you can do nothing and be taken care of ? ?

:banghead

You're absolutely right this whole mess started in the Clinton administration. He signed into law the ways for these banks to make these so called "creative financing" options for the lower income folks making it possible for everyone(whether they spoke english or not) to live the American dream.
It has come full circle now. :pissed


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 08 2008,1:11 pm Post # 13 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Read this NYtimes article from 1999:





September 30, 1999
Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending
By STEVEN A. HOLMES
In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the
Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other
lenders.
The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York
metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is
generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a
nationwide program by next spring.
Fannie Mae, the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the
Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure
from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.
In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them
make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings
are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge
much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.
’’Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990’s by reducing down payment
requirements,’’ said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae’s chairman and chief executive officer. ’’Yet there remain
too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been
relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.’’
Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the
loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan
market.
In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk,
which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation
may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings
and loan industry in the 1980’s.
’’From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,’’ said
Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ’’If they fail, the government will have to
step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.’’
Under Fannie Mae’s pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one
percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that
currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two
years, the one percentage point premium is dropped.
Fannie Mae, the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers.
Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of
loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar
credit ratings.
Fannie Mae officials stress that the new mortgages will be extended to all potential borrowers who can qualify
for a mortgage. But they add that the move is intended in part to increase the number of minority and low
income home owners who tend to have worse credit ratings than non-Hispanic whites.
Home ownership has, in fact, exploded among minorities during the economic boom of the 1990’s. The number
of mortgages extended to Hispanic applicants jumped by 87.2 per cent from 1993 to 1998, according to Harvard
University’s Joint Center for Housing Studies. During that same period the number of African Americans who
got mortgages to buy a home increased by 71.9 per cent and the number of Asian Americans by 46.3 per cent.
In contrast, the number of non-Hispanic whites who received loans for homes increased by 31.2 per cent.
Despite these gains, home ownership rates for minorities continue to lag behind non-Hispanic whites, in part
because blacks and Hispanics in particular tend to have on average worse credit ratings.
In July, the Department of Housing and Urban Development proposed that by the year 2001, 50 percent of
Fannie Mae’s and Freddie Mac’s portfolio be made up of loans to low and moderate-income borrowers. Last
year, 44 percent of the loans Fannie Mae purchased were from these groups.
The change in policy also comes at the same time that HUD is investigating allegations of racial discrimination
in the automated underwriting systems used by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to determine the credit-worthiness
of credit applicants.


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 08 2008,2:58 pm Post # 14 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Maybe That Needs To Be Mailed To The Clintons ........

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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,6:01 am Post # 15 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Carrera Elite @ Oct. 08 2008,2:58 pm)
Maybe That Needs To Be Mailed To The Clintons ........

Don't think it would mean $hit!.. :rolleyes  :pissed
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,7:23 am Post # 16 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I read yesterday that the last time the Democrats had the presidency and 60 votes in the Senate was 1978.  How scary is that?

I've actually changed my party from Republican to Libertarian, but am writing in Ron Paul.  People say I'm throwing away my vote, but McCain doesn't have a chance in this state anyway.  It doesn't really matter who I vote for because the free-loaders control this state. So I'm voting for who I want to vote for, not who I dislike least.


Edited by My Man's Sportin' Wood on Oct. 09 2008,7:23 am
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,7:48 am Post # 17 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (GoFastRacer @ Oct. 09 2008,6:01 am)
Quote (Carrera Elite @ Oct. 08 2008,2:58 pm)
Maybe That Needs To Be Mailed To The Clintons ........

Don't think it would mean $hit!.. :rolleyes  :pissed

Probably Not!!  :(


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,7:49 am Post # 18 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (My Man's Sportin' Wood @ Oct. 09 2008,7:23 am)
not who I dislike least.

That Seems To Be The Way It Has Been For Years..... :(


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,10:02 am Post # 19 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I've not been on the fence, ever. Thanks for the info though. In this election I didn't think there's gonna be a winner as far a making things better. I'm kinda looking at it trying to save what I have left. America runs on small business's that are already struggling. One canidate is gonna tax them right out of business. How many tax dollars will be collected from the millions of business's that go under.


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,10:51 am Post # 20 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (My Man's Sportin' Wood @ Oct. 09 2008,7:23 am)
I read yesterday that the last time the Democrats had the presidency and 60 votes in the Senate was 1978.  How scary is that?

I've actually changed my party from Republican to Libertarian, but am writing in Ron Paul.  People say I'm throwing away my vote, but McCain doesn't have a chance in this state anyway.  It doesn't really matter who I vote for because the free-loaders control this state. So I'm voting for who I want to vote for, not who I dislike least.

Great post Angie! :good

I hear the "throwing your vote away" argument all the time, but like you posted, the Dems are taking Cali anyway.  Voting for a third party can show your dissatisfaction of the 2 major parties and hopefully in the long run, build strength for a 3rd party contender one of these years.  The way the rules are set up, it's very hard for a 3rd party to compete.  Currently, all the public funding is going just going to the 2 major parties, but if a 3rd party gets a significant amount of votes, they can receive public funding for the following election.  Ross Perot is an example of that.  He didn't qualify for any public funding on his first run, but gained enough votes to qualify for it for his second run.

I don't know how many people know this, but not every state is winner take all in the electoral college.  There are currently 2 states that use a proportional system with the winner taking the first 2 electoral votes plus their proportional share of the remaining. There is talk that Cali is looking into this system for the future.

Even though is hard, it's not impossible for a 3rd party to gain power.  The economy is so screwed up now, it will remain screwed up for a long time no matter who wins this election.  I think this creates a good opportunity for everyone to strongly consider a 3rd party in the future. :)






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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,11:15 am Post # 21 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

...

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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,12:14 pm Post # 22 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Interesting how (it seems) almost every boating board I visit is about 99% supportive of McCain :stupid  But yet the polls seem to put it more or less even. Are the boating boards that far Right :rolleyes  If so for what reason?

I hear the "It all started with Clinton" alot too. But didn't all start with Carter :D or maybe it was JFK ;)

Or was it whoever was pulling the puppets strings fault.

:drama


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,12:17 pm Post # 23 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Havasu Doug @ Oct. 06 2008,9:57 pm)
If you're on the fence, please read this.

This is one fence I'm sure you all know that I'm not on :bebe


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,12:38 pm Post # 24 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (AZKC @ Oct. 09 2008,12:14 pm)
Interesting how (it seems) almost every boating board I visit is about 99% supportive of McCain :stupid  But yet the polls seem to put it more or less even. Are the boating boards that far Right :rolleyes  If so for what reason?

I hear the "It all started with Clinton" alot too. But didn't all start with Carter :D or maybe it was JFK ;)

Or was it whoever was pulling the puppets strings fault.

:drama

I think the reason could be that a majority of peeps on many boards are mostly small business owners with quite a few large business owners thrown in. Just as an example and probably not a good one. Rexone listed five properties for sale yesterday, all vacant lots. $475,000, $575,000, $675,000, $775,000, and $1,500,000. All really nice lots in Havi. Pic's on PB for those interested. Hell, on most boards you get laughed at for having anything less than 28 feet with a Teague motor that you didn't pay cash for.


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 09 2008,2:49 pm Post # 25 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (AZKC @ Oct. 09 2008,12:14 pm)
Interesting how (it seems) almost every boating board I visit is about 99% supportive of McCain :stupid  But yet the polls seem to put it more or less even. Are the boating boards that far Right :rolleyes  If so for what reason?

I hear the "It all started with Clinton" alot too. But didn't all start with Carter :D or maybe it was JFK ;)

Or was it whoever was pulling the puppets strings fault.

:drama

If we, as boaters, were more liberal, we'd want to be 'FAIR' and would pool our money to allow each of us to own the same boat. Then we'd all leave our boats avaliable to others who cannot afford to enjoy our activity.   :peace


Things don't look great for McCain/Palin, but as long as the polls are close, this may favor them.
In my mind, more conservative people are not represented well in polls, because they keep to themselves. But they do get out to vote. More liberal people speak out a lot, but then don't make the effort to actually vote. Leave it to someone else to do that for them.

I'm just say'n   :bebe


Hockey Family

Can I sue Los Angeles if their boycott reduces my AZ property value?!?
http://www.azfightsback.com/
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