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Posted: Mar. 07 2009,8:18 pm

Post # 1

Current and Future Gun Owners better check this one out. Â HR45 was introduced on January 6th and has been flying under the Radar. Â With the Libs controlling the House, Senate, and President.......Well, Lookout. Â Here's a link for more info Â GunControlKills Â Damn Democrats!!!! :angry

Edited by BigBoyToys on Mar. 07 2009,8:18 pm

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Posted: Mar. 07 2009,8:21 pm

Post # 2

Basically, if passed, it will require you to get a FEDERAL PERMIT to own a Gun. That would include a big $$ fee, Registration, Reporting of sales, Fingerprinting, all sales have to go through the background check, etc etc. And would make it a felony if you own a gun and don't have a "Federal Gun Permit" :pissed

Bastards!!!! :angry

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Posted: Mar. 07 2009,8:27 pm

Post # 3

Of course, the Nobama ANti-Gun Attorney General would be the one issuing permits (Rather...NOT issuing Permits :angry

) We need to get these idiots ALL out of office! Seriously... :banghead

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,6:06 am

Post # 4

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,8:55 am

Post # 5

I have a Federal Permit, couple of words about it in the Constitution. :beat

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,10:36 am

Post # 6

I don't think the Fed's will register the guns I have :rolleyes

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,10:53 am

Post # 7

You want gun control? ELIMINATE the Democrat Party and Liberalism, so that way criminals are no longer "victims", which would in turn let us get the garbage off the streets and eliminate the threats.

It really don't matter what the idiots in DC do at this point on gun control. I'm buying up everything I can and ammo too...And they will NEVER take it from me as long as I am breathing :eek

Unless they want the ammo coming at them at 2000fps +/- :bebe

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,11:12 am

Post # 8

You tell'm Mr Heston :guns

BBT you lived in California to long. And the cold where your at now is clouding your judgement :peace

Come to AZ and relax and wear a gun in public with no permit.

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,12:07 pm

Post # 9

Quote (AZKC @ Mar. 08 2009,10:36 am)

I don't think the Fed's will register the guns I have :rolleyes

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,12:08 pm

Post # 10

Quote (AZKC @ Mar. 08 2009,11:12 am)

You tell'm Mr Heston :guns

BBT you lived in California to long. And the cold where your at now is clouding your judgement :peace

Come to AZ and relax and wear a gun in public with no permit. Â

Welcome To The Wild West!! :laugh

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,3:54 pm

Post # 11

Quote (AZKC @ Mar. 08 2009,11:12 am)

You tell'm Mr Heston :guns

BBT you lived in California to long. And the cold where your at now is clouding your judgement :peace

Come to AZ and relax and wear a gun in public with no permit. Â

I can do that here...But prefer to conceal them

I do have a CCW Permit though :good

California carry....Forget it. You have to be an Anti-Gun Liberal Hypocrite to get a CCW in California. Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer both have CCW's....How does that happen? LIBERAL "DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO" HYPOCRITE'S

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,4:45 pm

Post # 12

Quote (BigBoyToys @ Mar. 08 2009,3:54 pm)

Quote (AZKC @ Mar. 08 2009,11:12 am)

You tell'm Mr Heston :guns

BBT you lived in California to long. And the cold where your at now is clouding your judgement :peace

Come to AZ and relax and wear a gun in public with no permit. Â

I can do that here...But prefer to conceal them

Â I do have a CCW Permit though :good

California carry....Forget it. Â You have to be an Anti-Gun Liberal Hypocrite to get a CCW in California. Â Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer both have CCW's....How does that happen? Â LIBERAL "DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO" HYPOCRITE'S

I too disagree w/gun control as far as ownership goes. But there has to be some kind of regulation as to what type. Why does "Joe Citizen" need a fully auto AK47? Or as that goes; any fully auotmatic "mankiller"? That's what the Aks, M16s, UZIs (I'm not,knowledgable of the "new " weapons on the market), and any of the other type of auotmatic weapons are. Why must an individual be better armed than the police or military. Revolution? Don't think so. Curiosity? OK. But you can rent time on these and still rest assured that they are in the proper hands, under lock and key, when you're done. There are just too many individuals in the US that are irresponsible, not of sound mind or judgement, and do not have the best of intentions towards other citizens.

I too will do whatever I can within legal means to support the 2nd amendment; but BBT, it's statements like "Unless they want the ammo coming at them at 2000fps +/-" that keep giving DC fodder for the argument that we cannot be entrusted w/the responsibilties afforded us by the 2nd amendment. We seem at times a far more "unstable" citizenry (not speaking of you BBT) than ever before. Just read your headlines. We don't need gun control. What we need is enforcement of the laws governing gun ownership that are already in existence. They worked for decades and would still work today.

Edited by gigamurph on Mar. 08 2009,4:49 pm

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,5:09 pm

Post # 13

They will not take mine...Period. Nor will they get me to register mine...Period

I think where your misinformed there Gig is the part about being better armed than the police (Sorry, we will NEVER be better armed than the military). The reason Gangs and drug dealers and other various criminals are better armed than the police, is because "Certain" politicians keep spending OUR money on the criminals (oh..sorry, they are victims ) :rolleyes

to rehabilitate their sorry asses, while NOT giving the Police the funding that they need to deal with the problems. Do you know how many weapons a Police Department can buy with the $200k in the Budget Proposal for a Tattoo Removal Machine? BTW, that Tattoo Removal machine is supposed to be used for Gang Members :rotflmao

Don't EVEN EVER ask me to give up weapons, be it Fully Auto or not. In case you are not aware of it, Police are REACTIVE. In that they respond AFTER the fact. I can, and WILL be better armed than any person that tries to deny me of my Constitutional and other Inalienable Rights. I am ready, willing, and able to protect what is mine, and my family, by whatever means necessary.

The Libs need to Build Prisons and Arm the Police BETTER and Hire more Police. Not give away BILLIONS on stupid ass projects and "Criminal Rehabilitation" BS.

Take what happened in Cleveland Friday. Dude served 5 years in prison for Killing a man...Used a gun to do it too. But, I guess he was pronounced no longer a threat to society and he was "rehabilitated" Then he kills 5 people (6 if you include the Scumbag himself). And I can guarantee you that somewhere along the ways, it was some touchy feely Liberal that had something to do with the reason why this guy only served 5 years......I'd have hung him myself, but that's just me.

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,5:21 pm

Post # 14

Oh yeah, and for the Record, I am DEFINITELY not a Democrat, but I am also not a Republican. I am a registered voter with the Constitution Party.
Fortunately, at least 1 of the 2 major political parties shares some of my views on Gun Control.

Food For Thought.....Do you know why we have never had our shores invaded by a Foreign Country? Because US Citizens own Guns!

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,5:26 pm

Post # 15

Quote (BigBoyToys @ Mar. 08 2009,5:09 pm)

They will not take mine...Period. Â Nor will they get me to register mine...Period

I think where your misinformed there Gig is the part about being better armed than the police (Sorry, we will NEVER be better armed than the military). Â The reason Gangs and drug dealers and other various criminals are better armed than the police, is because "Certain" politicians keep spending OUR money on the criminals (oh..sorry, they are victims ) :rolleyes

Â to rehabilitate their sorry asses, while NOT giving the Police the funding that they need to deal with the problems. Â Do you know how many weapons a Police Department can buy with the $200k in the Budget Proposal for a Tattoo Removal Machine? Â BTW, that Tattoo Removal machine is supposed to be used for Gang Members :rotflmao

Don't EVEN EVER ask me to give up weapons, be it Fully Auto or not. Â In case you are not aware of it, Police are REACTIVE. Â In that they respond AFTER the fact. Â I can, and WILL be better armed than any person that tries to deny me of my Constitutional and other Inalienable Rights. Â I am ready, willing, and able to protect what is mine, and my family, by whatever means necessary.

The Libs need to Build Prisons and Arm the Police BETTER and Hire more Police. Â Not give away BILLIONS on stupid ass projects and "Criminal Rehabilitation" BS.

Take what happened in Cleveland Friday. Â Dude served 5 years in prison for Killing a man...Used a gun to do it too. Â But, I guess he was pronounced no longer a threat to society and he was "rehabilitated" Â Then he kills 5 people (6 if you include the Scumbag himself). Â And I can guarantee you that somewhere along the ways, it was some touchy feely Liberal that had something to do with the reason why this guy only served 5 years......I'd have hung him myself, but that's just me.

Good arguments all. But I still believe that MOST citizens are "not well equipped enough" to be responsible owners of "high volume" weaponry.

As for Cleveland, couldn't agree w/you more. I believe we could relieve this nation of a great burden both economically and criminally if we would putt he death penalty to good use. The problem w/our prisons were that they were once predicated on reform and now are more inclined to "protect the rights" of the criminal(s) than anything else. If one repeatedly commits crimes against society, it's time to put one out of society's misery.

I still have a hard time advocating the owbership of automatic weapons; but to each their own.

Try not to take my stand as a personal afront. It's just my opinion and beliefs.

Oh; and the part about being better armed than the police comes from the No. Hollywwod incident of several years and listening to the "grumblings" of some in police depts. everywhere that w/all the "progress" that has been made since that shootout, they still could be "out-armed" at any given time.

Edited by gigamurph on Mar. 08 2009,5:30 pm

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,5:32 pm

Post # 16

.......And furthermore, there already are strict laws in place on Fully Auto Weapons. And they ARE enforced. But the drug smugglers and Gang Members and other criminals don't care about laws anyways. Further Gun Control Laws will only hurt the Law Abiding ones like me.
And, just because you have a, as Gig Referenced "mankiller" fully auto, that doesn't make the gun any more deadly than a single shot rifle. In fact, when I shoot my automatic weapons, I put them in Semi-Auto mode...Much more accurate that way. I would even go so far as to say that a accurate Single Shot Bolt action Rifle in the hands of someone that knows how to use it, is MORE deadly than ANY Full Auto Weapon. But it's nice to know I have Full Auto if the need ever arises.
But most important, get this through your head and understand what it means. "Guns don't kill people...People Kill People"

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,5:36 pm

Post # 17

Quote (BigBoyToys @ Mar. 08 2009,5:21 pm)

Oh yeah, and for the Record, I am DEFINITELY not a Democrat, but I am also not a Republican. Â I am a registered voter with the Constitution Party.
Fortunately, at least 1 of the 2 major political parties shares some of my views on Gun Control.

Food For Thought.....Do you know why we have never had our shores invaded by a Foreign Country? Â Because US Citizens own Guns!

I too am neither Democrat or Republican; which in this "argument" means absolutely "squat" to me. A registered independent.

And yes, I know that the right to bear arms is a part of the reason that we have not been invaded. It is also the very reason that many worldwide believe that we are one of the most difficult societies to live in. Works both ways, good and bad, when the gun is pointing at "you or your family" and not an "invader".

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,5:41 pm

Post # 18

Quote (gigamurph @ Mar. 08 2009,5:26 pm)

Oh; and the part about being better armed than the police comes from the No. Hollywwod incident of several years and listening to the "grumblings" of some in police depts. everywhere that w/all the "progress" that has been made since that shootout, they still could be "out-armed" at any given time.

No doubt about it. I agree with you 100% that the Police are outgunned. BUT, there are 2 reasons that they are outgunned
#1 is because the Criminals do NOT buy through the normal "Gun Law" process and Circumvent it by getting their weapons elsewhere. Ain't no Gun Laws going to stop that.
#2 is because the Government spends Millions on studying the sex habits of the South American Swamp Rat, and other Stupid Ass Programs and waste, rather than spending the $$ on where it needs to be by Hiring more Police, Equipping them properly, and building more prisons so they can take the trash out of society.

And the reason that all this is happening, is because: 1. The criminals KNOW that they will be treated like "Victims" if they get caught. 2. The Government WANTS to have criminals so that they can "Rehabilitate" them so they can feel good about themselves, so why would they spend $$ to stop it? :angry

Ok, I'm done ranting :pissed

Carry on

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,5:45 pm

Post # 19

These long posts aren't doing much for my post count

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,5:55 pm

Post # 20

Quote (BigBoyToys @ Mar. 08 2009,5:32 pm)

.......And furthermore, there already are strict laws in place on Fully Auto Weapons. Â And they ARE enforced. Â But the drug smugglers and Gang Members and other criminals don't care about laws anyways. Â Further Gun Control Laws will only hurt the Law Abiding ones like me.
And, just because you have a, as Gig Referenced "mankiller" fully auto, that doesn't make the gun any more deadly than a single shot rifle. Â In fact, when I shoot my automatic weapons, I put them in Semi-Auto mode...Much more accurate that way. Â I would even go so far as to say that a accurate Single Shot Bolt action Rifle in the hands of someone that knows how to use it, is MORE deadly than ANY Full Auto Weapon. Â But it's nice to know I have Full Auto if the need ever arises.
But most important, get this through your head and understand what it means. Â "Guns don't kill people...People Kill People"

Relax BBT. Getting much too "personal" for an "easy" debate.

Am well aware of the cliche, "Guns don't kill people; people kill people!" And I fully agree and got it through my head long, long ago. I'm also aware of the ol' standard "When they outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns." I am not stupid as you infer and believe that just because you own a gun does it make you a killer. But how many times have the guns that are used to commit a crime not registered to the perp that used it? He had to get it from somewhere and that was someone who was irresponsible and either did not secure it properly or sold it illegally.

I don't agree w/the the stance that registration is a bad thing. If you don't have a record (nothing to hide) and you are fit (sane, competent) to own a weapon, God bless ya! Go buy all you want. I was raised around guns and taught the proper care and handling of them. But too many today haven't. That is the gyst of what I am trying to pervey in that situation.

It's a sticky subject loaded with many angles and "pratfalls", an dI appreciate your beliefs on it. I'm just one of those who believe that we need a better grasp of the "gun population" in this country.

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,5:58 pm

Post # 21

Quote (BigBoyToys @ Mar. 08 2009,5:41 pm)

Quote (gigamurph @ Mar. 08 2009,5:26 pm)

No doubt about it. Â I agree with you 100% that the Police are outgunned. Â BUT, there are 2 reasons that they are outgunned
#1 is because the Criminals do NOT buy through the normal "Gun Law" process and Circumvent it by getting their weapons elsewhere. Â Ain't no Gun Laws going to stop that.
#2 is because the Government spends Millions on studying the sex habits of the South American Swamp Rat, and other Stupid Ass Programs and waste, rather than spending the $$ on where it needs to be by Hiring more Police, Equipping them properly, and building more prisons so they can take the trash out of society.

And the reason that all this is happening, is because: 1. Â The criminals KNOW that they will be treated like "Victims" if they get caught. 2. The Government WANTS to have criminals so that they can "Rehabilitate" them so they can feel good about themselves, so why would they spend $$ to stop it? :angry

Ok, I'm done ranting :pissed

Â Carry on Â

.....and I agree w/you. But about #2? I bet if you were a South American Swamp Rat you'd take a different "tack" and be volunteering to be a "lab South Anerican Swamp Rat" in the studies!

Edited by gigamurph on Mar. 08 2009,5:59 pm

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,6:04 pm

Post # 22

Quote (gigamurph @ Mar. 08 2009,5:55 pm)

Quote (BigBoyToys @ Mar. 08 2009,5:32 pm)

Relax BBT. Getting much too "personal" for an "easy" debate.

Am well aware of the cliche, "Guns don't kill people; people kill people!" And I fully agree and got it through my head long, long ago. Â I'm also aware of the ol' standard "When they outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns." I am not stupid as you infer and believe that just because you own a gun does it make you a killer. But how many times have the guns that are used to commit a crime not registered to the perp that used it? He had to get it from somewhere and that was someone who was irresponsible and either did not secure it properly or sold it illegally.

I don't agree w/the the stance that registration is a bad thing. If you don't have a record (nothing to hide) and you are fit (sane, competent) to own a weapon, God bless ya! Go buy all you want. I was raised around guns and taught the proper care and handling of them. But too many today haven't. That is the gyst of what I am trying to pervey in that situation.

It's a sticky subject loaded with many angles and "pratfalls", an dI appreciate your beliefs on it. I'm just one of those who believe that we need a better grasp of the "gun population" in this country.

I'm not getting personal...Just Passionate

This is and always will be a topic with lots of point of views. And I do respect your Point of View Gig....(No Matter how wrong you are

)

Registration leads to Confiscation. That is the only reason I am against registration. And of course, the criminals don't/Won't register guns...

I can name right off the top of my head at least 8 countries that SEIZED guns from all LAW ABIDING citizens, with the Registration records being used as the tool by which confiscation was implemented.

Many guns are coming into our Country Illegally from foreign countries strictly for the criminal element. Making more gun laws and registration will not stop that one bit.

That is my whole point....More Gun Laws and Registration will ONLY Affect the Law Abiding Citizen and hinder/discourage the Law Abiding Citizen from protecting their Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,6:15 pm

Post # 23

BTW,
Maybe the reason I'm so passionate about the Gun Control issue is that I did have to use a Gun to defend myself many years ago. Burglar broke into my house late one night, knocked my front door down and pointed a 30-30 rifle at me. I shot him with a 12 Gauge Shotgun. This happened in California about 20 years ago.
That 12 Gauge Shotgun is now illegal in California and on the State of Ca DOJ's banned List. Why...I have no idea. :confused

If the same thing were to happen to someone in CA right now, and they used the same model Shotgun I did, want to bet who would be going to prison? The Intruder or the Homeowner? You see....You don't know. Maybe both would. BUT, that in itself is enough to make a law abiding citizen think twice about defending themselves. And when you are looking down a barrel of a 30-30, second thoughts will get you killed

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Posted: Mar. 08 2009,6:18 pm

Post # 24

I can go on and on about gun control. I have enough fact-based data and personal experiences to make this the longest topic on HDF

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