HD Forums - Topic - Running Rich?

No members are browsing this topic

Forum Led by: GoFastRacer

Pages: [1] 2

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

miller19j

Leo

Super Focker!
1,000 post flame

Solvang
Posts: 1,888
APPD 0.24
Post Rank: 34
Boat with an Engine Cover

Posted: May 19 2003,8:39 am

Post # 1

I took the boat out over the weekend and broke her in. She ran pretty well except for a few problems. The first one being that when I start her up and the electric choke is on it resembles a Diesel bus more than a boat, black smoke billowing out from the exhaust. It goes away when the choke comes off but the back of the boat was black when I got home. Is this a sign of running rich?

The other problem it that it seems to have a hard time cranking over the starter. Sometimes it just doesnâ€™t want to turn it over. My friend said that my rich running condition is causing it to get to much gas and making it hard to start. Is this possible or do you think it is something else?

As always any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Hey Sleek Bite Me!

| Member # 5 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

GoFastRacer Male

HDF Supporter

V-Driver For Life!
50,000 post flame

Big River, Ca
Posts: 62,619
APPD 7.96
Post Rank: 1
Spectra20

Posted: May 19 2003,9:03 am

Post # 2

Just a matter of adjustment, the choke is setup rich. When the motor is cold, open the throttle to activate the choke. Now loosen the screws on the choke housing and rotate the housing so the choke blade is not quite shut about a 1/4 in of space. Try it and see what happens and go from there!.

Your starting problem is not from gas!. You didn't mention if this happens when it's only hot or at any time. First thing, how is your connections, battery, swich, starter?, they must be clean and tight. How are your battery cables?, if they are corroded or too small, that would cause it to start hard. The other problem would be timing, if you have too much lead, it will always be hard to start. Did you try to crank the motor without the ignition turned on?, if it cranks easy without the ignition on, then that would be your problem. Now, if this all checks out to be ok, there's another possibility. If I'm right you have a brand new motor?, I had a problem like that before and it drove me nuts, come to find out the pistons were too tight in the bores and after the motor got hot, it was real hard to crank over, pistons were expanding, honed out the block and it went away!..Hope this helps!... :confused

| Member # 101 | Joined: 3-03-2003 |

miller19j

Leo

Super Focker!
1,000 post flame

Solvang
Posts: 1,888
APPD 0.24
Post Rank: 34
Boat with an Engine Cover

Posted: May 19 2003,9:28 am

Post # 3

The hard starting seems to be random it seems to do it almost all the time. Fortunately it usually fires up relatively quickly so it is not usually an issue. I checked the cables and they are in good shape I cleaned them and buzzed them out with a fluke meter and found a 0 ohm resistance. I put copper washers on both sides of the lead going into the starter to give it more contact surface area.

I have had this problem sense I put the motor back together so I have been trouble shooting it for a while. The timing could be the issue I am at 19 degrees at idle (750 rpm). It seems to run well there.

The pistons have moly coated skirts and I was told that they call for tighter tolerances than normal pistons. But we checked them before assembly and they are right within the specs that speed pro recommended. So I donâ€™t think that is it but it is a possibility.

Hey Sleek Bite Me!

| Member # 5 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

GoFastRacer Male

HDF Supporter

V-Driver For Life!
50,000 post flame

Big River, Ca
Posts: 62,619
APPD 7.96
Post Rank: 1
Spectra20

Posted: May 19 2003,11:14 am

Post # 4

Well, semms like you got it covered!. I would lean towards the timing, 19 is a little much, you may be on the borderline I would say 16 would be ideal. The reason it's running good is that your total is probably ideal for your application. You might try backing it off to 16 initial and see if it starts easier, if it does then you need to widen the spread between initial and total so you can keep your present total and have 16 initial!..Good luck!...

| Member # 101 | Joined: 3-03-2003 |

miller19j

Leo

Super Focker!
1,000 post flame

Solvang
Posts: 1,888
APPD 0.24
Post Rank: 34
Boat with an Engine Cover

Posted: May 19 2003,11:22 am

Post # 5

I will give that a try. Thanks for the advice

Hey Sleek Bite Me!

| Member # 5 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

Wifey

Cancer

Smiley
1,000 post flame

California
Posts: 2,479
APPD 0.31
Post Rank: 26

Posted: May 19 2003,1:45 pm

Post # 6

What's this? :confused

You're running RICH :good

I'm going shopping! :jumpie

| Member # 4 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

blown 472

Leo

Al Bundy

us
Posts: 678
APPD 0.09
Post Rank: 52

Posted: May 19 2003,1:53 pm

Post # 7

Quote (Wifey @ May 19 2003,1:45 pm)

What's this? :confused

You're running RICH :good

I'm going shopping! Â :jumpie

New shoes and swim suits? :jumpie

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests???

| Member # 16 | Joined: 12-06-2002 |

miller19j

Leo

Super Focker!
1,000 post flame

Solvang
Posts: 1,888
APPD 0.24
Post Rank: 34
Boat with an Engine Cover

Posted: May 19 2003,2:00 pm

Post # 8

Quote (Wifey @ May 19 2003,2:45 pm)

What's this? :confused

You're running RICH :good

I'm going shopping! Â :jumpie

Uhhhhhhâ€¦â€¦.NO! :rolleys

Hey Sleek Bite Me!

| Member # 5 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

GoFastRacer Male

HDF Supporter

V-Driver For Life!
50,000 post flame

Big River, Ca
Posts: 62,619
APPD 7.96
Post Rank: 1
Spectra20

Posted: May 20 2003,6:23 am

Post # 9

Quote (miller19j @ May 19 2003,2:00 pm)

Quote (Wifey @ May 19 2003,2:45 pm)

What's this? :confused

You're running RICH :good

I'm going shopping! Â :jumpie

Uhhhhhhâ€¦â€¦.NO! Â :rolleys

Uh oh!..

| Member # 101 | Joined: 3-03-2003 |

Oldsquirt

Libra

Pwc'er

NorCal
Posts: 63
APPD 0.01
Post Rank: 173

Posted: May 21 2003,8:57 pm

Post # 10

Miller, a couple thoughts about starter circuit testing. First, testing a starter cable with ohmmeter will rarely give a useful reading. Cables are so large that even if it was down to its last strand it would probably test out OK. A better test is called a "voltage drop" test. For the positive side of the circuit, connect meter positive lead to battery positive terminal. Connect negative lead to starter battery connection. Yes, you read that right. Goal here is to measure voltage lost in the circuit while cranking. Should be less than 1/2 volt.
Repeat test on ground side of circuit. Negative lead on battery negative, positive lead on starter case. Again looking for lowest posssible reading while cranking.
BIG HINT: I have seen a lot of guys put a real nice paint job on a new engine and then connect ground cable to the block. Paint is not a good conductor! Make sure you have a good metal-to-metal connection.

| Member # 89 | Joined: 2-19-2003 |

GoFastRacer Male

HDF Supporter

V-Driver For Life!
50,000 post flame

Big River, Ca
Posts: 62,619
APPD 7.96
Post Rank: 1
Spectra20

Posted: May 22 2003,8:04 am

Post # 11

Quote (Oldsquirt @ May 21 2003,8:57 pm)

BIG HINT: I have seen a lot of guys put a real nice paint job on a new engine and then connect ground cable to the block. Paint is not a good conductor! Make sure you have a good metal-to-metal connection.

Yep, see it all the time!.. :rolleys

| Member # 101 | Joined: 3-03-2003 |

blown 472

Leo

Al Bundy

us
Posts: 678
APPD 0.09
Post Rank: 52

Posted: May 22 2003,8:53 am

Post # 12

Even better is the guys trying to shot optics on painted surfaces, gezz it said to align it to .005" but we can hit it, at this point I hand them a scraper.

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests???

| Member # 16 | Joined: 12-06-2002 |

GoFastRacer Male

HDF Supporter

V-Driver For Life!
50,000 post flame

Big River, Ca
Posts: 62,619
APPD 7.96
Post Rank: 1
Spectra20

Posted: May 22 2003,8:13 pm

Post # 13

Quote (blown 472 @ May 22 2003,8:53 am)

Even better is the guys trying to shot optics on painted surfaces, gezz it said to align it to .005" but we can hit it, at this point I hand them a scraper.

Yeah, and I bet they still wonder what you mean!.. :laugh

| Member # 101 | Joined: 3-03-2003 |

Wifey

Cancer

Smiley
1,000 post flame

California
Posts: 2,479
APPD 0.31
Post Rank: 26

Posted: May 24 2003,8:05 pm

Post # 14

Quote (miller19j @ May 19 2003,2:00 pm)

Quote (Wifey @ May 19 2003,2:45 pm)

What's this? :confused

You're running RICH :good

I'm going shopping! Â :jumpie

Uhhhhhhâ€¦â€¦.NO! Â :rolleys

Catch me if you can :bebe

You said you liked my new swim suit :good

didn't you realize you paid for it :stupid

| Member # 4 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

miller19j

Leo

Super Focker!
1,000 post flame

Solvang
Posts: 1,888
APPD 0.24
Post Rank: 34
Boat with an Engine Cover

Posted: May 27 2003,12:23 pm

Post # 15

Quote (Oldsquirt @ May 21 2003,9:57 pm)

Sorry for not replying to this sooner I have been sick and not been on the boards for a while.

I am pretty sure that I have scraped all the paint off my ground connection but that is a good thing to go back and check. Thanks for the reminder. Â

I had thought about trying the voltage drop test but I wasnâ€™t sure the meter would handle the current pulled by the starter. According to the meter it can handle 10A but I am going to bet that my starter pulls more than 10 amps. Do you know how much current the starter actually pulls?

Edited by miller19j on May 27 2003,12:23 pm

Hey Sleek Bite Me!

| Member # 5 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

Oldsquirt

Libra

Pwc'er

NorCal
Posts: 63
APPD 0.01
Post Rank: 173

Posted: May 27 2003,9:19 pm

Post # 16

You don't have to worry about the meter. You aren't running the starter current through it. The meter will be hooked up parallel to the battery cables. All you are doing is measuring the difference in potential at either end of the circuit. Its a common test. My Fluke 88 has lived through it hundreds(?) of times over the years.

Hope you're feeling better.

| Member # 89 | Joined: 2-19-2003 |

Sleek-Jet

Aquarius
HDF Supporter

The Cooler
5,000 post flame

Batavia, IL
Posts: 6,351
APPD 0.80
Post Rank: 11
Big 'Ole Inner-tube

Posted: May 27 2003,9:34 pm

Post # 17

Ditto what Oldsquirt said, you shouldn't damage your meter. The 10A thing (at least on my Fluke 79) is the size of the fuse that is in the meter for current testing. I've blown both fuses in mine (on seperate occasions) several times with no ill effects on the meter.

Let us know what you find out and I hope you feel better. :good

A dog doesn't care if you're rich or poor, educated or illiterate, clever or dull. Give him your heart and he will give you his.

| Member # 81 | Joined: 2-07-2003 |

miller19j

Leo

Super Focker!
1,000 post flame

Solvang
Posts: 1,888
APPD 0.24
Post Rank: 34
Boat with an Engine Cover

Posted: May 28 2003,8:52 am

Post # 18

Ok it makes sense to me now. I thought you were talking about putting the meter in series with the starter and checking for any droop in the whole system. That is why I was concerned. But you are talking about putting it in parallel and just checking the cables.

Wow I need to go back to first grade and take reading over again!

I will give it a whirl tonight and tell you guys what I see.

Thanks again for all the help! :good

Hey Sleek Bite Me!

| Member # 5 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

GoFastRacer Male

HDF Supporter

V-Driver For Life!
50,000 post flame

Big River, Ca
Posts: 62,619
APPD 7.96
Post Rank: 1
Spectra20

Posted: May 28 2003,6:54 pm

Post # 19

Sooo, did you try backing the timing down a bit to see if it started easier??..

| Member # 101 | Joined: 3-03-2003 |

miller19j

Leo

Super Focker!
1,000 post flame

Solvang
Posts: 1,888
APPD 0.24
Post Rank: 34
Boat with an Engine Cover

Posted: May 29 2003,7:53 pm

Post # 20

Here are my results and now I am thoroughly confused.

With both leads of the volt meter on the battery I measure 12.60 volts. Now if I turn over the starter with both meter leads on the battery I measure 9.3 volts.

With the positive meter lead on the battery and the negative meter lead on the block at the end of the negative battery lead I measure 12.60 volts idle and 8.5 volts when cranking.

With the positive meter lead on the starter (at the end of the pos lead) and the negative meter lead at the end of negative lead connected to the block I measure 12.60 idle and 7.7 when cranking.

So my total voltage drop is 1.6 volts along the cables. But I am pulling down the battery 4.9 v down the cables and 3.3v at the battery. Is this normal? Do I need new leads or a new starter? :stupid

Gofast,

I havenâ€™t messed with the timing yet. I wanted to figure this part out first because it seems to run well where its timed.

Hey Sleek Bite Me!

| Member # 5 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

Sleek-Jet

Aquarius
HDF Supporter

The Cooler
5,000 post flame

Batavia, IL
Posts: 6,351
APPD 0.80
Post Rank: 11
Big 'Ole Inner-tube

Posted: May 29 2003,8:04 pm

Post # 21

Never mind, I'll have to think about this for another minute.

Edited by Sleek-Jet on May 29 2003,8:06 pm

A dog doesn't care if you're rich or poor, educated or illiterate, clever or dull. Give him your heart and he will give you his.

| Member # 81 | Joined: 2-07-2003 |

miller19j

Leo

Super Focker!
1,000 post flame

Solvang
Posts: 1,888
APPD 0.24
Post Rank: 34
Boat with an Engine Cover

Posted: May 29 2003,8:04 pm

Post # 22

Olssquirt,

I just reread your original post and retook the tests.

With the negative meter lead on the pos side of the battery and the pos meter lead on the pos side of the starter I measure 1.0 volts when the starter is laboring and .60 when it is turning.

With the negative meter lead on the neg battery terminal and the pos meter lead on the block where the neg battery lead bolts I measure .80 when the starter is laboring and .50 when its turning.

Now what does that tell us? :stupid

Thanks for all the help guys! :good

Hey Sleek Bite Me!

| Member # 5 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

Sleek-Jet

Aquarius
HDF Supporter

The Cooler
5,000 post flame

Batavia, IL
Posts: 6,351
APPD 0.80
Post Rank: 11
Big 'Ole Inner-tube

Posted: May 29 2003,8:11 pm

Post # 23

I'm going to go back to what I originally said (before I edited it). The voltage drop seems a little excessive. Looks like maybe corrosion in the cable.

Anyone else think the same thing????

A dog doesn't care if you're rich or poor, educated or illiterate, clever or dull. Give him your heart and he will give you his.

| Member # 81 | Joined: 2-07-2003 |

GoFastRacer Male

HDF Supporter

V-Driver For Life!
50,000 post flame

Big River, Ca
Posts: 62,619
APPD 7.96
Post Rank: 1
Spectra20

Posted: May 29 2003,8:36 pm

Post # 24

If all your connections are CLEAN, I'll still lay odds on the timing, too much initial!. I run 18 on mine and it's borderline for easy start!. As I said before, it runs good because your total is right for your application!. Before you go into stress mode on all this wiring stuff, back it off and see if it starts easy, a 30second test!.. :rolleys

| Member # 101 | Joined: 3-03-2003 |

miller19j

Leo

Super Focker!
1,000 post flame

Solvang
Posts: 1,888
APPD 0.24
Post Rank: 34
Boat with an Engine Cover

Posted: May 30 2003,8:11 am

Post # 25

I am going to do that tomorrow morning. I was to lazy last night the wheel the boat out of the garage and hook up the hose.

Hey Sleek Bite Me!

| Member # 5 | Joined: 12-03-2002 |

32 replies since May 19 2003,8:39 am

< Next Oldest | Next Newest >

Pages: [1] 2

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Home » HD Forums » Forums » Boat Tech » Running Rich?

The Colorado River WebRing

Please help keep HDF free. If you enjoy this site, feel free to make a donation to keep it running. THANKS!

an online boating community