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AZKC

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Posted: May 13 2003,11:12 am

Post # 1

As you may or may not have read, my boat developed a knock. Discovered it while fighting some rust/crap in the carb needles and seats. I'm pretty sure the lower end is my knock, I think my machinist screwed me on re-sizing the rods. This is the price ya pay sometimes for not double cking stuff, as Infomanic states quite often. "Trust No One"

So, any hook ups on a middle of the road 454/502 short blocks or do I buy a rotating assembly and try this again? I might be interested in a complete runner but it would have to be a great deal

I'm going to start looking today and tommorow, need to get this done. OP6-V is getting close and I'm going have to start working soon or later.

KC

Edited by AZKC on May 13 2003,11:15 am

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Posted: May 13 2003,11:39 am

Post # 2

Hey KC, did you take it all apart yet?, maybe it's not that bad?, like you said, you didn't double check, maybe it's only a bearing. So far all you have is a noise, don't seem to make sense to go out and buy a motor that you don't know the condition of when you have all new parts!. Maybe all it needs something minor and a good cleanup. How bout some pics of the bottom end!.. :confused

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AZKC

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Posted: May 13 2003,11:48 am

Post # 3

Hey congrats on 500 posts, I'm having motivation probs on the work on boat thingy. You are correct though, a tear down is in order, I'll probably get it apart tomorrow. Its still in the boat today.
I just don't have the patients to be yanking the engine, in and out all summer because of mine or somebody elses errors. I think I'm in denial :laugh

I let ya know how it goes.

KC

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Posted: May 13 2003,11:56 am

Post # 4

Thanks, didn't even notice!. :eek

Too bad you're so far, I'd give ya a hand!. :angry

Don't get discouraged though, at least till you find the actual cause, like I said, it may be minor!... :confused

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blown 472

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Posted: May 13 2003,12:17 pm

Post # 5

maybe it is a h bar knock, or something hitting the pan or windage tray?? I had a rocker hitting the inside of a valve cover tore the motor apart found nothing all back together and still had a noise, found it was the valve cover, took a hammer to it, wrote 500$ valve cover on it and hung it on the wall.

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests???

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blown 472

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Posted: May 13 2003,12:18 pm

Post # 6

Quote (AZKC @ May 13 2003,11:12 am)

I'm going to start looking today and tommorow, need to get this done. OP6-V is getting close and I'm going have to start working soon or later.

KC

Take your oil filter off and cut it open, this will tell you a world of things.

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests???

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AZKC

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Posted: May 13 2003,12:39 pm

Post # 7

I was just out listening to it again, and it knocks just off idle(around 1200rpm) and then goes away. I think I will wack open the oil filter, I guess I'm looking for metal, how much is ok for a new motor, if any?

And yank the valve covers off an ck the rocker adjustments and look for interferance with the covers.

The thing that weirds me out is you can feel the knock, it is transfering through the block like yer hitting it with 4lb hammer, then it goes away Â Â :confused

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blown 472

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Posted: May 13 2003,12:44 pm

Post # 8

did you grease the h bar, it has been sitting for awhile??

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests???

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Posted: May 13 2003,12:48 pm

Post # 9

Could it be piston slap???

I had a 460 in a pick-up that would sound like it was coming apart when it was cold, took it to a mechanic and he diagnosed it as piston slap. It was the same way, only off idle till about 2000 rpm. Once the motor warmed up, everything was OK.

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AZKC

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Posted: May 13 2003,12:49 pm

Post # 10

Quote (blown 472 @ May 13 2003,1:44 pm)

did you grease the h bar, it has been sitting for awhile??

edumacate me, H bar is????

KC

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blown 472

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Posted: May 13 2003,1:00 pm

Post # 11

Quote (AZKC @ May 13 2003,12:49 pm)

Quote (blown 472 @ May 13 2003,1:44 pm)

did you grease the h bar, it has been sitting for awhile??

edumacate me, H bar is????

KC

The drive between the motor and pump, has a couple of u joints.

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests???

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87 Cole

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Posted: May 13 2003,1:14 pm

Post # 12

AZKC, The first things to check before tearing down.
1) Disconnect the drive line from the engine, This will eliminate the drive train.
2) Get a small piece of wood about 2-3 foot long. Make sure it's thin. Start the engine and put the stick around different spots on the motor pressing the stick against your ear. This will give you a very good idea as to where the knock is coming from. Do this from the bottom end and work your way up to the valve covers. The total time to do this will take you about 1 minute. You won't hurt the engine. If need be have someone bring the RPM's up to hear the knock.

Edited by 87 Cole on May 13 2003,1:14 pm

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AZKC

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Posted: May 13 2003,1:38 pm

Post # 13

Quote (blown 472 @ May 13 2003,2:00 pm)

Quote (AZKC @ May 13 2003,12:49 pm)

Quote (blown 472 @ May 13 2003,1:44 pm)

did you grease the h bar, it has been sitting for awhile??

edumacate me, H bar is????

KC

The drive between the motor and pump, has a couple of u joints.

Yep greased that. But now that ya mentioned it. I thought that was the noise that eventualy led to the rod bearing failure that started this whole adventure 2 years ago. I wonder if greasing it caused it to go away for awhile and after awhile it got sloppy again. I inspected the u-joints before I greased them they seemed OK.

Did get the oil filter cut, no big metal but alittle metallic looking, I'm downloading the pics now, I'll see see how they come out and post a few.

KC

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AZKC

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Posted: May 13 2003,1:50 pm

Post # 14

Quote (87 Cole @ May 13 2003,2:14 pm)

Good idea, do that next but thats a little more involved, the bell housing has to come off(but its gota come off to get the engine out anyhow). That and its frikin 95* outside and the boats in the sun. Time to move it under some shade.

KC

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AZKC

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Posted: May 13 2003,2:31 pm

Post # 15

Heres some pics, I saw some metal(looked like a very fine metallic paint)but no large pieces and some of it was from cutting it open. the oil was black but I used a moly assembly lube.

What do ya think? I have more pics if need be, thanks for your help guys. Â

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87 Cole

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Posted: May 13 2003,2:41 pm

Post # 16

KC, From the looks of the pic's you'll have a little bit of the bearing in the filter. This is the coating used to finish them off. If you have no big chuncks and hard pieces of metal then it seams to be normal. If you do have a bearing going out you might not see it in the filter as of yet. Do the process of elimination on the drive line. Start it back up w/ new filter of course and listen for the knocking. Hopefully no knocking and the problem is in the pump or drive line/ujoints. I read that you had the pump rebuilt. Never know. You would be able to feel the vibration through the boat as well. Good luck KC

I wouldn't mind being the last man on Earth - just to see if all of those girls were telling me the truth.

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AZKC

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Posted: May 13 2003,3:10 pm

Post # 17

At least it didn't look like this, 396's Olds motor

I was thinking it looked like normal break-in babbit, but I'm pulling the pump loose and we'll see. A little more encouraging any way

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Sleek-Jet

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Posted: May 13 2003,3:23 pm

Post # 18

Quote (AZKC @ May 13 2003,4:10 pm)

At least it didn't look like this, 396's Olds motor

I was thinking it looked like normal break-in babbit, but I'm pulling the pump loose and we'll see. A little more encouraging any way

That would be bad.

KC, I agree with Cole, your filter looks about normal for break-in.

Keep us posted.

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AZKC

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Posted: May 13 2003,5:17 pm

Post # 19

Hot fockin dam, 472 and 87 Cole nailed it. With the coupler off the noise and the knock are gone I'm pretty sure. Going to ck it a couple more times with water hooked up, but I didn't here it or feel it the two times I cked it out . A good thing Â :jumpie

Thanks guys for helping me think it thru. It may take awhile to get it back together, I kinda tore it apart and some of the stuff is going to be a biatch to get back on with some of the short cuts I took, kinda flat rated it.

Still have some issues with the oil pressure going up and down when I started it the last time it went past 80 psi. I think I'll ck it with a mechanical gauge and swap out the gauge and sender.

Seriously this was a big kick in the balz for me and to have people that I've never met in person help me out restores my faith in mankind(sort of) Â

Kevin

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Posted: May 13 2003,8:16 pm

Post # 20

One more thing, take a magnet and go over the filter element, it's hard to tell the difference between steel and aluminum!. A little dust is normal for break in but if you have metal, there's a problem!.. :eek

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Posted: May 14 2003,5:53 am

Post # 21

If you pressure is all over the place, try a baldwin, hastings, or wix oil filter, I put one on my hot rod and made a big diff in the pressure. Fingers and toes crossed you found the problem.

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests???

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87 Cole

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Posted: May 14 2003,7:39 am

Post # 22

KC, Glad to hear it. Have a good drive line shop test the old u/joints and see if they can make it knock. If you have a protected cover over your u/joints and the joints are going bad this could be hitting the cover at a specific RPM. Check cover as well for wear.This will rest easy on your mind that it's not inside the pump. Remember you'll have a little metal in the oil filter from the way you cut it open/ I suspect a hacksaw. Anyways I hope this will do it for you and look forward to getting on the water.

I wouldn't mind being the last man on Earth - just to see if all of those girls were telling me the truth.

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AZKC

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Posted: May 14 2003,8:07 am

Post # 23

10-4 Guys, the hacksaw shavings did give me a little scare but then I noticed the orange paint on them(Fram Orange)

slept alot better last night, thats for sure Â :cool

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AZKC

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Posted: May 14 2003,1:43 pm

Post # 24

Drama, Drama :laugh

Well I just fired the boat back up after inspecting the h-block and u-joints and greasing them again and the noise/knock is gone. I'm pretty dam happy. At least if I hear/feel that again I'll know where to look first. I used the BG bearing grease this time and last, the ujoints seem OK maybe they were just real dry and binding.

Time to get it back on the water and have another stress attack :laugh

First one is on me guys when ever we hook up :beer

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Posted: May 15 2003,9:39 am

Post # 25

Congrats, glad it turned out just a minor problem!.. :good